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i didn't talk to any of the cia people involved. what i have heard is that the screenwriter kind of drank the kool-aid and fell in love with his cia sources and are taking their point of view. peter bergen in his book "manhunt" and also in a recent article implies that there was absolutely no link between so-called extreme interrogation and information that led to the courier who ultimately brought them to bin laden. >> for those having seen the film, do you believe it makes the case that torture was essential in killing bin laden? >> can i answer that in a vigorously wishy-washy way? >> i guess you will. >> because i think that kathryn bigelow, if you look at her last film, "the hurt locker," it began with a quote from chris hedges to the effect that war is a drug, an addiction, and kathryn bigelow is kind of an amoral filmmaker. she portrayed a woman who is basically addicted to revenge, who is on a kind of counter jihad. bigelow takes her point of view and shoots the torture scenes in a neutral way. they are ugly, disturbing, and
i didn't talk to any of the cia people involved. what i have heard is that the screenwriter kind of drank the kool-aid and fell in love with his cia sources and are taking their point of view. peter bergen in his book "manhunt" and also in a recent article implies that there was absolutely no link between so-called extreme interrogation and information that led to the courier who ultimately brought them to bin laden. >> for those having seen the film, do you believe it makes the...
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Dec 7, 2012
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i spoke with cnn contributor, former cia officer bob baer and dr. sanjay gupta. we talked about this last night, but explain again what one warhead filled with sarin could do. >> one of these shells and the standard shell the syrians put this in is a 122 millimeter shell, a standard artillery piece. if they were to drop this into a dense area, into damascus or a suburb of homs, it doesn't matter which town, it will instantly kill 18,000 within the first few minutes. >> from one shell? >> one single shell would immediately kill 18,000 people. you know, this is a liquid. it's dispersed. it sticks on you. you get a few -- a little bit in your system, and you're dead. >> sanjay, what does it do to somebody who comes in contact with it? >> it affects receptors in the brain, and let me preface it by saying it's odorless and tasteless and it's colorless. it's hard to even know, you know, that it's there because of those things. also by touching it as bob was talking about, but also by inhaling it or eating food or drinking water contaminated with it, you can also get po
i spoke with cnn contributor, former cia officer bob baer and dr. sanjay gupta. we talked about this last night, but explain again what one warhead filled with sarin could do. >> one of these shells and the standard shell the syrians put this in is a 122 millimeter shell, a standard artillery piece. if they were to drop this into a dense area, into damascus or a suburb of homs, it doesn't matter which town, it will instantly kill 18,000 within the first few minutes. >> from one...
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and in that sense, it's not helpful. >> the movie portrays the cia analysts and also cia officers in the field and then obviously special forces. but in reality, there was an fbi component and a lot of contention between the fbi and cia about it. >> sure -- >> go ahead. >> bob, go ahead. >> the fbi is against torture. it can't take the evidence and take it into court. an fbi agent intearicated khalid shake muhammad disagreed that torture got anyone anywhere. they're completely opposed to it. the cia was reluctant to use torture, too. it was the pentagon and also a mix. >> do you fear this becomes the narrative, that people will see this and think, okay, waterboarding got bin laden? >> yeah. i mean, i think that's the bottom line. i don't think that's not the filmmaker's intent, and they have many other scenes in the movie about how the relationship with the foreign intelligence office derived real leads, the name of bin laden's courier, and they tracked down the cell phones he was using and how human spies on the ground in pakistan tracked him to where he was hiding with bin laden an
and in that sense, it's not helpful. >> the movie portrays the cia analysts and also cia officers in the field and then obviously special forces. but in reality, there was an fbi component and a lot of contention between the fbi and cia about it. >> sure -- >> go ahead. >> bob, go ahead. >> the fbi is against torture. it can't take the evidence and take it into court. an fbi agent intearicated khalid shake muhammad disagreed that torture got anyone anywhere....
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and i know every expert i've talked to in the fbi, and in the cia, glenn carl for example told me none of this torture worked. none of this enhanced interrogation worked. it did not, as cheney has alleged, lead to the killing of bin laden. it was counterproductive. it was damaging to our reputation and he's still lying about it. >> we haven't heard the last of that, have we? >> no, we haven't. >> how aggressive do you think lawmakers ought to be with that report? >> i think it ought to be at least portions of it, just like i thought the 9/11 commission portions of it should be made public. if we're not going to hold people accountable, we should at least let the american people know what was done in their name that basically constituted war crimes. >> getting back to cheney for a moment, his vision of international intervention, do you think that that really illustrates where the republican party is? >> i think the republican party is lost right now. wandering in the desert, as it were.
and i know every expert i've talked to in the fbi, and in the cia, glenn carl for example told me none of this torture worked. none of this enhanced interrogation worked. it did not, as cheney has alleged, lead to the killing of bin laden. it was counterproductive. it was damaging to our reputation and he's still lying about it. >> we haven't heard the last of that, have we? >> no, we haven't. >> how aggressive do you think lawmakers ought to be with that report? >> i...
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cia will be playing a larger role. so you ought to head the cia. that's the new order of things in washington. it's not necessarily the way things are supposed to be. tim weiner, who wrote the history of the cia, gets at that fact in "the new york times" this week writing "before 9/11 the cia's service never assassinated anybody itself. since then drone air strikes against suspected foreign terrorists have killed some 2,500 people including civilians without public discussion in congress. intelligence is the hard work of trying to know your enemy. it's not the dirty business of political murder." what the cia has been through is a big change. it's not one we debated much as a country. this meeting between fox news and the man they were trying to line up to become the republican nominee shows us the degree to which this is the common understanding of insiders in washington. while those who are supposed to be debating what our posture is and how things get done, have been left out of the discussion. all but for the style section leaking this tape as
cia will be playing a larger role. so you ought to head the cia. that's the new order of things in washington. it's not necessarily the way things are supposed to be. tim weiner, who wrote the history of the cia, gets at that fact in "the new york times" this week writing "before 9/11 the cia's service never assassinated anybody itself. since then drone air strikes against suspected foreign terrorists have killed some 2,500 people including civilians without public discussion in...
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Dec 5, 2012
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just even in the end game, cia, when i became deputy national security advisor in january of 1989, cia was cometology, was coming to me with so much information about how the regime was collapsing economically, how gorbachev essentially had destroyed the old stalinist economy but hadn't put anything in its place that i went to president obama and -- president bush in july of 1989, bush authorized me to form a very secret planning group, a contingency planning group to prepare for the clams of the soviet union, and the person from the nsc staff, that general scowcroft and i put in charge was a young woman named condoleezza rice .. so two and a half years before the soviet union collapsed, the united states was beginning contingency planning to goal that collapse. the first briefing that i ever heard where i heard the cia tell the president of the united states this regime cannot last, and it is not in the distant future. it is on its last legs. >> rose: that was in -- >> 1985, before his first meeting with gorbachev. >> rose: let me move to china, in the few minutes remaining, the presi
just even in the end game, cia, when i became deputy national security advisor in january of 1989, cia was cometology, was coming to me with so much information about how the regime was collapsing economically, how gorbachev essentially had destroyed the old stalinist economy but hadn't put anything in its place that i went to president obama and -- president bush in july of 1989, bush authorized me to form a very secret planning group, a contingency planning group to prepare for the clams of...
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that was a decision made by the cia, the managers of the cia. i mean, certainly any agency of the u.s. government which has a big success would probably want an accurate portrayal of that success. i think that was why the filmmakers met with this particular woman. as fran points out, there is actually -- there were men involved in this. it isn't just a female agent that did everything. the film suggests that a female agent played an essential role. there's another person that goes by the name of john who has some press attention in the past who was equally important so let's be accurate about this. >> fran, i want to ask you, i want to read a quote to you that was in this "the washington post" piece from a former cia official describing the environment at the agency. this is what the quote says. "the agency is a funny place. very insular. it's like middle schoolers with clearances." i want to get your take on that how does the cia culture play into this controversy surrounding this woman now? >> no question it's a very insular place by its very
that was a decision made by the cia, the managers of the cia. i mean, certainly any agency of the u.s. government which has a big success would probably want an accurate portrayal of that success. i think that was why the filmmakers met with this particular woman. as fran points out, there is actually -- there were men involved in this. it isn't just a female agent that did everything. the film suggests that a female agent played an essential role. there's another person that goes by the name...
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we have a picture from former cia operative and contributor bob bayer to show you what the impact of a single shell of gas would be in launched on homs in syria. the large swath of the city that would be affected. it's estimated about 18,000 people would be killed in a day. let's get straight to barbara starr. and barbara, what have you learned tonight? >> well, you know, as tragic and serious as this is for the people of syria, this now has regional implications throughout the middle east. intelligence services from israel, turkey, jordan, lebanon, all the countries surrounding syria are talking with the united states around the clock about this very scenario because if there were to be god forbid a chemical attack, the concern is some could drift across borders. worse even as tragic as that would be, what if the regime collapses, terrorists move in, insurgent groups move in and grab some chemical material. they could take it across the borders into the neighbors countries and have a full fledged crisis in the region. >> there has been talk that assad may try and seek asylum. what a
we have a picture from former cia operative and contributor bob bayer to show you what the impact of a single shell of gas would be in launched on homs in syria. the large swath of the city that would be affected. it's estimated about 18,000 people would be killed in a day. let's get straight to barbara starr. and barbara, what have you learned tonight? >> well, you know, as tragic and serious as this is for the people of syria, this now has regional implications throughout the middle...
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we'll talk to a former cia officer about that and sanjay gupta. plus an activist inside syria and what he has to say about the potential threat, next. oç=Ñp >>> syria's government is under scrutiny tonight as the world awaits the a sad's next move. as we told you last night, nbc news is reporting that syria's actually loading chemical weapons in to bombs. cnn has not confirmed the nbc report. all of this comes amid a string of opposition victories. recently they took control of key oil fields, saw advances in aleppo and reports suggest they surround the capital of damascus. one opposition spokesman told cnn they started what they believe to be the end battle of this war. if the intelligence on the chemical weapons, though, is true, the latest advances by the opposition seem to add incentives to the syrian government to use them. the assad regime denies having chemical weapons, and claims the reports are being used to justify an international invasion. after more than 20 months of fighting and more than 40,000 civilian deaths, the civil war ap
we'll talk to a former cia officer about that and sanjay gupta. plus an activist inside syria and what he has to say about the potential threat, next. oç=Ñp >>> syria's government is under scrutiny tonight as the world awaits the a sad's next move. as we told you last night, nbc news is reporting that syria's actually loading chemical weapons in to bombs. cnn has not confirmed the nbc report. all of this comes amid a string of opposition victories. recently they took control of...
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he could put a woman in the cia. that would be a huge, huge deal. and the republicans, this is the party, by the way, that just has a gender gap of 20 points in the last election, a party that has a massive gap when it comes to african-americans and latinos. if he all of a sudden puts a woman in and the old white men say no to something like that, that's really a problem for them. it's the party's problem, they have to get beyond this. >> msnbc contributor senate guru jimmy williams, great to see you, thank you, sir. >>> that's going to wrap things up for me. thank you for your time today. joining me tomorrow, house minority whip stenny hoyer, clyburn, ted strickland, and my colleague, melissa harris-perry. don't go anywhere, alex wagner is coming up. what do you have coming up? >> hello, thomas, still in d.c. with another action-packed show. we'll have the latest on the slow, unfolding drama, emphasis on slow, that is the fiscal cliff negotiations. the white house and speaker boehner trade proposals and tension. we will discuss with house democrati
he could put a woman in the cia. that would be a huge, huge deal. and the republicans, this is the party, by the way, that just has a gender gap of 20 points in the last election, a party that has a massive gap when it comes to african-americans and latinos. if he all of a sudden puts a woman in and the old white men say no to something like that, that's really a problem for them. it's the party's problem, they have to get beyond this. >> msnbc contributor senate guru jimmy williams,...
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our cia are out there all over the world but they have to get information. they collect it and analyze it. look at what happened in benghazi. that's another issue. we knew that it was a hot spot, but we didn't have intelligence that they were going to attack. >> greta: therein proves my point. that was another intelligence where we might have the hardest working people in the world, the best in the world but the fact is intelligence failures do happen with even the best. that's why it's very hard to have a lot of sort of comfort in terms of what happens with these, you know, chemical weapons should assad leave. >> no question. >> greta: mistakes happen. >> we can't be the sheriff for the whole world, so we have to work with other countries an other allies. as serious as the situation is in syria, we've got to work with russia. >> greta: let me ask you a quick question. you've actually met president assad. tell me your impression. >> on our way to iraq we had to go -- we were asked to go and stop by to see assad. this was right after, maybe six months after p
our cia are out there all over the world but they have to get information. they collect it and analyze it. look at what happened in benghazi. that's another issue. we knew that it was a hot spot, but we didn't have intelligence that they were going to attack. >> greta: therein proves my point. that was another intelligence where we might have the hardest working people in the world, the best in the world but the fact is intelligence failures do happen with even the best. that's why it's...
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we've had no woman ever heading up the pentagon, cia, or treasury. on the other hand, we've only had one male as labor secretary in the last 26 years. pop quiz. >> robert reich. >> robert reich. and the chief of staff has always, always, been a white male. going after, as to your point, the black female potential secretary of state after that -- >> -- after the election we just had. it's impossible -- i think you can't divorce any of these things from any of the other things. >> quick panel, yes or no, does susan rice get the nomination? >> yes. i would say. >> yes. >> i have no idea. i have no idea. i'm out of the prediction game. >> one more. >> no. >> i want to thank you on that note to nicolas, joan, maggie, and rana. that is the end of the show. that's all for now. alex wagner returns tomorrow at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific when she is joined by chris hayes, melissa harris-perry, professor michael eric dyson, and dr. zinc emmanuel. until then, you can find alex on facebook.com/now with alex. andrea mitchell reports is next. good afternoon, a
we've had no woman ever heading up the pentagon, cia, or treasury. on the other hand, we've only had one male as labor secretary in the last 26 years. pop quiz. >> robert reich. >> robert reich. and the chief of staff has always, always, been a white male. going after, as to your point, the black female potential secretary of state after that -- >> -- after the election we just had. it's impossible -- i think you can't divorce any of these things from any of the other things....
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"outfront" tonight, national security contributor fran townsend who is on the cia and homeland security external advisory board and noah shachtman. noah, what do we think is going on right now? at what point are they in this process? >> so the assad regime has hundreds of metric tons of the building blocks of sarin. basically two big building blocks. there's isopropanol which is rubbing alcohol and phosphorous compounds. those are kept separately in order to keep things safe. but the assad regime in small, limited quantities appears to have combined those two chemicals to make deadly sarin nerve agent and has loaded them on to aerial bombs. >> if that is true, fran, it's a very provocative thing. is it provocative enough that the u.s. now has to consider action? >> well, you know, the administration has not made it clear. what the president has said is that the use of such weapons would be a red line for the united states and her allies. but it's not clear, short of use, is this preparation, is the mixing of the precursor chemicals enough? as noah can tell you this is a very unstable su
"outfront" tonight, national security contributor fran townsend who is on the cia and homeland security external advisory board and noah shachtman. noah, what do we think is going on right now? at what point are they in this process? >> so the assad regime has hundreds of metric tons of the building blocks of sarin. basically two big building blocks. there's isopropanol which is rubbing alcohol and phosphorous compounds. those are kept separately in order to keep things safe....
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so there are some republicans who might challenge him. >> the cia director, too. so i wouldn't necessarily rule that out. >> there is. >> and what about susan rice? >> that is, of course, the big question. my sources say, the president is still very close to her. a huge susan rice fan, as someone said to me. but this source also said the longer she hangs out there the harder it is. of course, last week was not a great week for her. as you recall, she went to the hill to try to asage republican concerns and mf them came out of that lessen thenthusiast. the president is the one who makes these decisions and he's a huge fan of susan rice. >> well, we'll see what he does. >> and don't forget, in the top four cabinet posts, susan rice is a woman. and i think there's a real sense of diversity in that they'dke to see a woman in one of the top four jobs. >> there should be a woman in the top four jobs. >> secretary of state is a woman. so we'll see about that. >> thank you very much. >>> now arrested, we have details of the surprising charges and a shocking past. .4 [ wom
so there are some republicans who might challenge him. >> the cia director, too. so i wouldn't necessarily rule that out. >> there is. >> and what about susan rice? >> that is, of course, the big question. my sources say, the president is still very close to her. a huge susan rice fan, as someone said to me. but this source also said the longer she hangs out there the harder it is. of course, last week was not a great week for her. as you recall, she went to the hill to...
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we'll talk to a former cia officer about that and sanjay gupta. plus an activist inside syria and what he has to say about the potential threat, next. i'm doing my own sleep study. advil pm® or tylenol pm. the advil pm® guy is spending less time lying awake with annoying aches and pains and more time asleep. advil pm®. the difference is a better night's sleep. so, the 5.3-liter v8 silverado can tow up to 9,600 pounds? 315 horsepower. what's that in reindeer-power? [ laughs ] [ pencil scratches ] [ male announcer ] chevy's giving more. get the best offer of the year -- 0% apr financing for 60 months plus $1,000 holiday bonus cash. plus trade up for an additional $1,000 trade-in allowance. hurry. bonus cash ends january 2nd. [ female announcer ] holiday cookies are a big job. everything has to be just right. perfection is in the details. ♪ get to holiday fun faster with pillsbury cookie dough. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on t
we'll talk to a former cia officer about that and sanjay gupta. plus an activist inside syria and what he has to say about the potential threat, next. i'm doing my own sleep study. advil pm® or tylenol pm. the advil pm® guy is spending less time lying awake with annoying aches and pains and more time asleep. advil pm®. the difference is a better night's sleep. so, the 5.3-liter v8 silverado can tow up to 9,600 pounds? 315 horsepower. what's that in reindeer-power? [ laughs ] [ pencil...
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this movie, if people see it, will make you uncomfortable because you'll watch entirely believable cia officers, for once in a movie, you don't usually see that, people who look like you or me, joe or mika, and having to make these decisions and do these things, and that's why i think it's so powerful. it's not dick cheney, you know, sort of figure of universal hatred, it's somebody who looks like you or me having to deal with this. >> i like dick cheney, for the record. it is a good point. mika, the horns have been drawn on the men and women who, after september 11th, 2001, were asked to go out and save americans from another terror attack. >> i agree. >> and maybe this film begins to erase those horns and make them realize that they are americans who love their family who are patriotic, who wanted to do what men and women who signed up to go off to afghanistan and iraq wanted to do after september 11th. they have been done a grave disservice by this country that needed them after september 11th and let us hope that this film at least starts to put this situation into more perspective
this movie, if people see it, will make you uncomfortable because you'll watch entirely believable cia officers, for once in a movie, you don't usually see that, people who look like you or me, joe or mika, and having to make these decisions and do these things, and that's why i think it's so powerful. it's not dick cheney, you know, sort of figure of universal hatred, it's somebody who looks like you or me having to deal with this. >> i like dick cheney, for the record. it is a good...
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phillip mudd, a former cia and fbi counterterrorism official, says there's a huge concern over who to trust with chemical weapons. >> when you've got roughly 10% of the opposition in the. >>>s u.s. government is declaring are terrorist group you're going to be concerned. in any case like this, there's a lot of risk. >> reporter: but mudd says it's still better to train the rebels on how to handle those materials than to do nothing. and leonard specter says the u.s. and its allies are likely screening the individuals who are being trained very carefully, wofrl, at least that's the hope. >> despite all that, there's still a potential for these chemical weapons getting into the wrong hands. despite what the u.s. is trying to do. >> reporter: phillip mudd says if the syrian regime loses control of these weapons, that's a huge worry. if they fall into the hands of others who are not trusted by the u.s. or its allies they could float around the border to iraq or other potentially dangerous places where they don't have control over these things. if assad loses control of these things anytime
phillip mudd, a former cia and fbi counterterrorism official, says there's a huge concern over who to trust with chemical weapons. >> when you've got roughly 10% of the opposition in the. >>>s u.s. government is declaring are terrorist group you're going to be concerned. in any case like this, there's a lot of risk. >> reporter: but mudd says it's still better to train the rebels on how to handle those materials than to do nothing. and leonard specter says the u.s. and its...
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cnn national security contributor fran townsend, a member of the external advisory committees to the cia and department of homeland security. general marks, let me start with you. what are the military options at this stage right now? realistically, what could the use, nato, the international community militarily do if there is an indication that the syrian military's about to use chemical weapons against its own people. >> wolf, that's the key point. in advance of its use what can the u.s. do? and it's clearly having a very robust, very broad intelligence collection apparatus that takes into account all means of collection, technical as well as human intelligence. there are known sites where the chemical weapons are stockpiled, where the production sites are. then there has to be an act to marry those up with the distribution or delivery means. >> a missile. >> a missile, artillery shell, put into a bomb then uploaded under the wings of an aircraft. all those are indicators of what might occur. intelligence has to be very, very robust in order to go after that. then, if it is such that
cnn national security contributor fran townsend, a member of the external advisory committees to the cia and department of homeland security. general marks, let me start with you. what are the military options at this stage right now? realistically, what could the use, nato, the international community militarily do if there is an indication that the syrian military's about to use chemical weapons against its own people. >> wolf, that's the key point. in advance of its use what can the...
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you had a future republican director of the cia and the pentagon working for you, a future republican secretary of state working for you. >> steve hadley. >> and a future republican national security adviser as well as madeleine albright, another democrat, but you had as many powerful republican leaders, future leaders, are as powerful democratic leaders. >> the president should be doing every week, almost every day, you have to be meeting with some of them, having dinner with them, talking to them, chatting. >> yes. >> and also threatening occasionally. >> by the way, mika has circled all the dinner guests that you've had over the years. >> some of them worked for my dad. >> it's the same principle that works in journalism, everyone knows if you're going to garn aeroreport, it's far better to get a source face-to-face. it's far bettory get a source of the fund than a person via e-mail. >> and best of all to have a relati relationship with them. >> it's just intimacy that happens between a source and a reporter. >> this president does not like that. he's not comfortable in this person
you had a future republican director of the cia and the pentagon working for you, a future republican secretary of state working for you. >> steve hadley. >> and a future republican national security adviser as well as madeleine albright, another democrat, but you had as many powerful republican leaders, future leaders, are as powerful democratic leaders. >> the president should be doing every week, almost every day, you have to be meeting with some of them, having dinner with...